Recently I had the opportunity to sit down and have a conversation with Dr. Stan Toler, General Superintendent Emeritus in the Church of the Nazarene. We spoke about his beginnings in ministry, his love for the church, and vibrant church renewal. It was a fascinating and hope-filled conversation. Check it out below!
Brandin:
What are your earliest memories of the
church?
Stan: My earliest memories of the church are very
fond and bring laughter and tears to my eyes, because I was converted at a very
early age. My call to preach came at
seven years of age in a vibrant church in the hills of West Virginia. And as a result its always been a point of
enlightenment to me that small churches should never be underestimated,
because here in a little church of sixty in one renewal endeavor (revival), with
an evangelist that they had called to preach, had nine little boys respond to a
call on their lives to preach. All of us
went into the full time ministry and have served faithfully for God, not one of
us fell away from that calling. From
that group we’ve had a General Superintendent, a District Superintendent, a
missionary, an evangelist, and the rest pastors.
Brandin: Where was your first pastorate?
Stan: My first pastorate was in Ohio. I was seventeen years old and I had preached
a youth crusade when I was sixteen in Newark, Ohio and the whole church,
seventeen people, had come to the youth crusade. At the end of the service
on the last night they told me that God had impressed them that I was supposed
to be their next pastor, and I was just a junior in high school. Shortly after that I felt indeed that the
Lord was leading me to do that and so I started pastoring my first church at
seventeen years old as a junior in high school.
Brandin:
Did you go to college after that?
Stan: Yes, in fact, my first year in college I
continued to pastor the church and lived off campus. Then ultimately I went on staff in a local
church for the rest of my time in college and served with John C. Maxell and
Tom Hermiz, who were great mentors to me in a vibrant church setting in
Lancaster, Ohio. So, I was exposed to
some of the best leaders that are in church ministry, even today.
Brandin: Somewhere in there you found the time to fall
in love and get married?
Stan: Yeah I did.
In fact, I also sang and preached in a college quartet and we went south
to Georgia when I was eighteen years old and I met Linda Carter, the daughter
of Jimmy Carter, not the one you’re thinking about, and
ultimately four years later we were married.
This March we will celebrate our forty-first anniversary.
Brandin: Since that first pastorate you have pastored
churches of all sizes in Ohio, Florida, Tennessee, and Oklahoma. As a General
Superintendent you have witnessed the church in action all over the world. What
is it you love most about the church?
Stan: I think the connectivity of the Church of the
Nazarene is the thing that is most exciting to me. I find that we are joined together around the
world. Having served as superintendent
in jurisdiction in South America as well as Africa, I’ve witnessed God’s hand
of blessing and vibrancy on the church in a way that has encouraged me about
the future of our church. But I think
the glue that holds us together is that we are connected as Nazarenes as a
family more than any other denominational group that I’m aware of. It seems like we’ve been able to maintain the
ability to know each other and somehow we are able to connect the dots of
relationships.
So, no matter where I’ve gone in the world to the eighty-five
countries I’ve been in, there’s always been someone that knows someone else in
the Church of the Nazarene that I’m supposed to say hello to or take something
to. But more importantly it has been
stories about how someone was converted under their ministry, or I learned the
importance of the spirit-filled life as a result of this persons ministry, or
because of that professor in the classroom helped me with my theological
understanding, or this pastor performed our wedding or dedicated our children,
and so you find that unity of purpose in our church family because of it.
Brandin: One of the reasons I wanted to sit down and
talk to you about vibrant church renewal is because I know that you love the
church. It’s evident to everyone that has
ever been around you that you love the church and love the Church of the
Nazarene.
Research
continues to tell us that roughly 80% of the 300,000 Protestant churches in the
United States have plateaued or are declining. The most recent report from the
Board of a General Superintendents given by Dr. David Busic confirms that the
CON in USA/Canada is no different, experiencing a steady decline in weekly
average worship attendance. Some would say there is no hope for the established
church. What would you say?
Stan: Well, the words of Jesus are ever present in
my mind where he said, “I will build my church and the gates of Hell will not
prevail against it.” I think it’s a day of
persecution and accusatory action against the church, and I think invariably
the church has flourished during those times.
And I believe that there will be a spiritual resurrection of evangelism
and outreach across denominational lines because there are many people that are
praying and fasting and believing God for renewal, not only around the world, but
also in USA/Canada.
I’m convinced that vibrant churches have intentional focus and
they will not be distracted from their call from above to fulfill the mission
of Jesus, which is to seek and to save the lost as expressed in the Church of
the Nazarene ‘to make Christlike disciples in the nations.’ So, vibrant churches know how to zero in on
what’s important and I believe that calling a church to prayer and to fasting
and renewal will help us to focus on what’s important, and that is the souls of
man. And I am praying for a harvest of
souls across our land, our nation, and I believe it’s going to happen. There are many others who are praying the
same prayer. I think we need a 2Chronicles 7:14 experience in our churches, and if we will humble ourselves
and pray and will stand for truth and right, God will reward us with his
faithfulness and give us a revival in our land.
Brandin: There are some that would say that as a
church all you have to do is be faithful – just keep praying, just keep
preaching the word. Do you believe that
there are other actions that must go along with our faithful praying and
preaching?
Stan: Absolutely! And certainly that was the obvious mark of
the early church. Together they prayed, they
worshipped, they sang songs, and read scriptures and that should always be who
we are and what we’re about. But I
believe that vibrant churches not only have intentional focus, but they focus
on the human hurts and spiritual hopes of individual people. And when we look beyond the walls of the
church to a community that is hurting and try and help people who despair, when
we try and address the hurts and offer ministries that meet those needs, I
believe our churches will grow again.
There was an old Greyhound Bus ad that they used as a slogan
that said, “When you focus on basic needs your always needed.” I’m convinced that when we focus on the needs
of others we will have a harvest of souls.
It’s one thing to give a cup of cold water, but it’s also important that
we give a cup of cold water in Jesus’ name.
Because when his name is mentioned, it’s the name above all names and
mystically, wonderful things happen, in my opinion.
Brandin: Something you said there
reminded me of a something I read somewhere that said, “Trendy wears off.
Useful never does.”
Stan: Yeah, that’s good. And I think
I see in the millennial generation the desire, the aptitude, and the
willingness to make a difference and to impact the culture rather than the
culture changing the church and the dynamic of the church that we have the
ability to impact. We certainly should
make adjustments to reach people, but that doesn’t mean we have to compromise
to the culture, but we surrender to Christ and sacrifice in our lives as a
witness to the culture. God can use
that.
It’s interesting to me that the world continues to borrow our
words. Transformation is a new buzzword,
transformational leadership. I’m old-fashioned. I
believe that Romans 12 is right, that we don’t have to conform to the
pattern of the world, but that we can be transformed by the renewing of our
minds. Stewardship is another word that
the world has taken hold of and used, and the church has abdicated on the
word. I believe we need to take back
some of that turf that belongs to us. Transformational
leadership, by definition, motivates people to a higher level of morality. So, think of what the church has to offer
when you think of it as being transformed by the renewing of your mind and
presenting your life as a living sacrifice to Christ. What can God do with that life?
Brandin: Some want to put all their
eggs in the basket of church planting and ignore the need to focus on
revitalization. Even with all of the emphasis on church planting we are closing
churches faster than we can open them.
My simple question to you is, why revitalization?
Stan: I think that’s a wonderful question. I was a church planter right out of college,
so I know something about planting a church a thousand miles away from home and
not having any people, or property, or money.
And I believe that it’s still true that new churches started and planted
have a greater ability to evangelize because of their fluidness and their mode
of operation than existing churches. So,
I maintain that we have to plant churches in order to continue to grow and even
equally important to assimilate unchurched people into an environment that is
friendly to them when they’ve had no church background whatsoever, and it
becomes a comfortable place for them.
On the other hand, I am convinced that church revitalization can
take on new meaning, especially if we borrow from the LifeChurch model and
others who are having more than one campus - multi-site, multi-campus. I believe we can borrow from that if more
churches that are successful, and have the capacity to do it, and have a church
staff, if they would adopt churches that are struggling and invest in them, we
have the ability to do some very good things in terms of church
revitalization.
In a sense that is what is happening now with many of these
models we are seeing where churches are having four or five or six
campuses. In our case I think we have
church buildings and a remnant of people and all they need is an investment in
them, maybe musically and financially, to raise the bar in terms of the music
and their reaching out. Maybe in terms
of improving their facilities so they can be up-to-date. I think we have a lot of potential in that
realm.
So, I’m very much a believer in assisting and revitalizing to
bring church health to the many churches that are in existence, and I would
consider that one of the greatest challenges, for our strong churches to
consider investing in those as much as in church planting.
I love what people like Jerome Hancock are doing in Richmond,
Virginia at Southside Church of the Nazarene where they have picked a couple of
churches like that and have really assisted them and revitalized them. Now they have become campuses, but they are
still a part of the whole. They are no
less a part of the district and no less a part of the general church.
Brandin: Church consultant Gary McIntosh
concludes that only about 5% of pastors are turnaround leaders. Thom Rainer,
who has done years of research for the Southern Baptist Convention, notes that
"there are not enough turnaround pastors to lead even one-third of
America's churches in need of a turnaround."
How can
we help churches experience a turnaround when their pastor may not be a “turnaround” pastor? And how do we do it in a way that affirms
that pastor is still highly gifted and valued as a part of the kingdom?
Stan: Your question is spot on. And I would agree with McIntosh and
Rainer. I respect their research and I
respect them as great leaders whose writings are helping the church be real
about where we are and where we need to go. And I believe that the best way for
that to happen, because most do not have that turnaround ability as described,
is for us to have more of the adoptive process across our districts from strong
churches that will take an interest to encourage, support, and train. And more mentoring needs to occur from those
churches, from top to bottom, from the lead pastor to every staff member in
that church sharing what they know and investing in churches that are weaker,
but have tremendous potential.
I think
that is the heart and soul of connectivity in the Church of the Nazarene being
expressed and lived out on a daily basis.
And I believe the younger generation will see this much more
clearly. They are much more willing to
allow the lines to be blurred in order to do that. And so, we’ve got to reach across the
nation and help one another in an adoptive process, in my opinion.
Brandin: What you are describing is out of the box
and, to be honest, for most of us is a risk.
To be able to reach out and do something like that is a relational risk,
as pastors might feel threatened over turf, and a financial risk to invest in
something outside your self. What would you say to a pastor or a congregation that
is wrestling with the decision to take a risk like that?
Stan: I think my first observation, having
served in a denominational leadership role, is that you should always make
yourself aware of any boundary issues, and extend the proper courtesies before
you make commitments or reach into an area that is not one that you have
permission to go into. And I’ve always, as a pastor, tried to respect those types of issues and boundaries and it is
important to the process. But I would
also encourage those in leadership to allow more creativity and to not just see
boundaries, but to see the potential of these partnerships developing.
I think a lot of the larger churches are starting to see the
value of partnership in world areas, such as Bethany First that partners with
Swaziland, and it is incredible what has been accomplished. In the same regard, if we would become more
aware across USA/Canada of churches that have tremendous potential and all they
need is a little bit of help for one season, and then they could flourish. I think that would make a huge difference in
the future.
With all that said, God is building his church and in my
travels, both as a General Superintendent and now as a passionate speaker on
the subject of church development and leadership, I’m more encouraged than I’ve
ever been about the potential of our church worldwide, but specifically in
USA/Canada. We’ve never had a better day
in terms of technology, in terms of the monetary support, educational
opportunities, facilities, and the wealth of knowledge that is available to
us. It’s the greatest day we’ve ever
had, and if we will seek God’s blessing on every avenue of ministry then he can
help us multiply what we have invested in communities for Christ’s sake.
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